Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

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  24

  From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained: Is the WTS the sole promoter of this doctrine?

  by Pallbearer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  howdy folks,.

  i am interested in learning whether or not the watchtower society is the only religious entity that teaches the "from paradise lost to paradise regained" idea.. the "idea" is that god's original purpose for man and the earth has not changed.

  god purposed for adam and eve and their offspring to reproduce and fill the earth and live forever upon it; but the problem of sin entered into the picture and temporarily interrupted that purpose from being completed.

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  Sea Breeze

  the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3: 10

  Paul,

  The WT is certainly not unique in picking and choosing which verses they take as literal and which verses they wave away as symbolic because they don't like what it says. The church has been plagued with this kind of nonsense from very early on.

  The bible teaches that there will be a literal paradise earth (people will still have the sin nature though) under the kingdom reign of Jesus Christ, and after that the universe will be rolled up like a scroll and re-created, completely unblemished by sin and rebellion.
  
  Many billions of people who want to live with God will get to be eyewitnesses of this re-creation event.... with front row seats. It will be awesome.
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  86

  Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

  by Disillusioned JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the wt, charlatanism?.

  https://www.fullmoon.nu/sources.bak/chapter%2010/part%202/gish%20exposed.html [which has an article called "creationism: bad science or immoral pseudoscience?

  - (an expose of creationist dr. duane gish)"] says the following.. 'a look at the "scientific" creationist movement and a close examination of the tactics of a well-known and influential creationist will reveal that the creation "science" movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics.. .... with the facts explained and the lawsuits won, scientists declared victory and returned to their labs and offices.

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  Sea Breeze

  Likewise, RNA and DNA has successfully been “created” from “nothing” in the lab.

  Anonymous: Do you have a link to a peer reviewed paper for this ?

  I'm curious, what did you think of the data I presented above showing the impossibility of even an 8 letter genetic word being homogeneous to a genetic population in many billions of years (longer than the age of the universe)?

  Keep in mind that there is a 100 million base pair difference between us and chimps (supposedly our closest evolutionary relative); this is not even counting the nearly 400 million base pairs difference resulting from their genome being 13% longer than ours.
  
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  24

  From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained: Is the WTS the sole promoter of this doctrine?

  by Pallbearer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  howdy folks,.

  i am interested in learning whether or not the watchtower society is the only religious entity that teaches the "from paradise lost to paradise regained" idea.. the "idea" is that god's original purpose for man and the earth has not changed.

  god purposed for adam and eve and their offspring to reproduce and fill the earth and live forever upon it; but the problem of sin entered into the picture and temporarily interrupted that purpose from being completed.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  DJW, I think a literal reading is just what it says... NEW Heavens and a NEW Earth.

  the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. - 2 Peter 3: 10

  Also, why does Revelation say that the God will literally dwell on Earth after the 1,000 years?

  Because he is the King of it. Originally, Adam was King of the world. Then, a thief slipped in and stole it from him using deception. Later, God incarnated himself and bought the whole thing with his own blood.

  I believe Jesus used to walk around the garden with Adam, just the two of them enjoying each others company. It will be like that. People just hanging out with God, enjoying him.

  
  
  
• 
  38

  New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

  9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

  21:12, 17;] jn.

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  Sea Breeze

  Ernest,

  "feed the church of God which he purchased with his own blood" in Acts 20: 28 is EXACTLY the belief used by two prominent congregations leaders who were personally discipled by the apostle John. You cannot change that fact.

  Would you at least concede that?

  he makes no allusion to the book of Acts in any of his letters so there is no basis for suggesting he alludes to it here.

  Of course they allude to it here. Acts was in circulation among Christians at the time. The belief statements are the same - God has blood. You would have us believe that these congregation leaders never read the book of Acts even though they were at the top of the orthodox Christian community and were personally taught by the apostle John and the book was in circulation?
  
  John himself wrote that Jesus was God in John 1: 1. He obviously believed God bled too.
  
  
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  38

  New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

  9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

  21:12, 17;] jn.

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  Sea Breeze

  Sea Breeze, it should first be said that neither of the exerpts that you quote are referring to Acts 20:28.

  Ernest:

  That is hand-waving away inconvenient date to your argument. You have no way of proving this statement, as if you can crawl in their heads.
  
  The fact is:

  Acts 20: 28 speaks of the "blood of God" and two prominent congregations leaders who were personally discipled by the apostle John use this exact same expression.
  
  
• 
  38

  New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

  9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

  21:12, 17;] jn.

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  Sea Breeze

  GB,

  Of course early Christians thought Jesus was God, as evidenced by the dozens of quotes on this thread.
  
  Your own quote above from Polycarp is naming Jesus as "God" :
  
  

  may He bestow on you a lot and portion among His saints, and on us with you, and on all that are under heaven, who shall believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ

  
  Your post PROVES that the earliest congregation leaders viewed Jesus as both Almighty God and man .... at the same time, and not just one or the other.
  
  And, as difficult as that may be to wrap your mind around, that is exactly what Christians believe today. I believe that your difficulty is rooted in materialism, which is the belief that there is no personhood attributed to anything other than the body of man - a leftover from Watchtower exposure.
  
  Once you adopt a biblical definition of how man is constructed... with spirit, soul and body - a Tri-Partite being; then you will no longer need to ignore or explain away data that shows Jesus was viewed and accepted as God.
  
  Read your last quote from Polycarp again, the whole thing. You'll see that Polycarp both acknowledged that Jesus had a God and was God. And, this is precisely the portrait that the scriptures present, regardless of how contradictory this may seem to someone with a partial materialist view.

  It matters not if you agree, understand or accept this fact. This is the consistent portrait of Jesus of Nazareth, and is foundational to the Christian faith.

  If you claim to be Christian, you have got to put faith in the right Jesus in order for the relationship to grow.
• 
  86

  Is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the WT, charlatanism?

  by Disillusioned JW in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is most of the promotion of creationism, not just that by the wt, charlatanism?.

  https://www.fullmoon.nu/sources.bak/chapter%2010/part%202/gish%20exposed.html [which has an article called "creationism: bad science or immoral pseudoscience?

  - (an expose of creationist dr. duane gish)"] says the following.. 'a look at the "scientific" creationist movement and a close examination of the tactics of a well-known and influential creationist will reveal that the creation "science" movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics.. .... with the facts explained and the lawsuits won, scientists declared victory and returned to their labs and offices.

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  Sea Breeze

  Dinosaurs

  Diamonds

  DNA

  Examination of the above fits with a Creation paradigm, not deep time. In addition to all this, the study of genetics utterly disproves evolution as Dr. Sanford ( world-famous geneticist and author of over 100 peer-reviewed science papers) explains at the National Institutes of Health .... starting at around the 17 minute mark.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNOAoONRb60&t=1392s&ab_channel=BobEnyart
  
• 
  24

  From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained: Is the WTS the sole promoter of this doctrine?

  by Pallbearer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  howdy folks,.

  i am interested in learning whether or not the watchtower society is the only religious entity that teaches the "from paradise lost to paradise regained" idea.. the "idea" is that god's original purpose for man and the earth has not changed.

  god purposed for adam and eve and their offspring to reproduce and fill the earth and live forever upon it; but the problem of sin entered into the picture and temporarily interrupted that purpose from being completed.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  RR,

  A literal bible reading states there will be a new heavens and a new earth. But, this is after the Thousand Year Reign of Christ, and after the Great White Throne Judgement.
  
  The bible teaches both, not just one or the other. This chart explains:

  

  This chart is basically the same thing but more xjw friendly.
• 
  24

  From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained: Is the WTS the sole promoter of this doctrine?

  by Pallbearer in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  howdy folks,.

  i am interested in learning whether or not the watchtower society is the only religious entity that teaches the "from paradise lost to paradise regained" idea.. the "idea" is that god's original purpose for man and the earth has not changed.

  god purposed for adam and eve and their offspring to reproduce and fill the earth and live forever upon it; but the problem of sin entered into the picture and temporarily interrupted that purpose from being completed.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Baptist Churches, Bible Churches, most Evangelical Churches and most Non-Denominational churches will believe in what the WT calls the "paradise earth" (premillennialism)

  The reason that most folks took issue with us in our former door to door work wasn't because they held a different view of a paradise earth (amillennialists excepted). They took issue with us because we were preaching a different gospel than the one taught by the apostles in teaching that Jesus had already returned (in 1914) and the church age had ended in 1935 making the new covenant unavailable and unnecessary. This two-tier salvation (one with the new covenant and one without it) is where we lost most Christians we met. The apostles never preached this gospel.

  though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. - Gal. 1: 8

  Our rejection of the new covenant and expecting to avoid judgement is why we were all so shocking to premillinnialists and amillennialists alike.

  And, they were right....like duh.
• 
  38

  New Approach to Discussing Deity of Christ with JW's

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  5:27; 9:59; 18:22; jn.

  9:48; [21:8]; 24:47; jn.

  21:12, 17;] jn.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Sea Breeze

  Thankfully, we have the writings of two of the Apostle John's disciples, Ignatius and Polycarp - both congregation leaders who refer to this verse in their writings.

  Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50–117)

  "I have become acquainted with your name, much-beloved in God, which you have acquired by the habit of righteousness, according to the faith and love in Jesus Christ our Saviour. Being the followers of God, and stirring up yourselves by THE BLOOD OF GOD, you have perfectly accomplished the work which was beseeming to you."

  Polycarp of Smyrna (69–155)

  "Being as you are imitators of God, once you took on new life through THE BLOOD OF GOD you completed perfectly the task so natural to you."